Avatar of Jarlsberg

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Avatar of Jarlsberg

Post  catchops on Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:48 pm

Observations so far:
- As in Boris, you start with a key, and buy skills at Jarlsberg's gate in the Dungeons.
- You can't eat or drink anything but special jarlsberg-crafted food (see your campsite), but you can use astral energy drinks. This means no astral hot dogs, beer, or fortune cookies. Keeping track of your semirares makes Jick cry.
- drunkenness limit is 8 or 9 (probably 9). 10 is definitely falling down drunk.
- stomach limit is 9 or 10. Early foods are 3 or 4 fullness, be careful not to start with two 4-fullness foods like I did.
- The +1 food conjuration seems to mean +1 food (4 total) each cast, not 1 extra cast.
- Equipment: you get a good hat, though you can wear other hats. You'll probably be going barehanded or using Jarlsberg's awesome craftable chefstaves.
- skills: Tomes and Librams and Grimoires are still usable. Fax machine is not, other non-Jarlsberg skills are not.
In combat normal attacks do no damage, you have to use Jarlsberg's spells. You start with a 0 MP spell, Curdle, and the first skill in each path seems to be a 5 MP combat spell that's not noticeably better than Curdle so far.
- IOTM: VIP lounge key very useful as always, especially as you don't have a normal healing skill. Bookshelf skills work normally as mentioned above. See Mr. Store in path for an item that gives you 15 skill points (and makes Jick cry). As in Boris, there are no familiars.
- IOTM Garden: Jarlsberg does have a garden. I don't think you can eat/drink the products, which means you'd be choosing Peppermints for sprouts, crooks and parasols; Pumpkins for juice and bombs; or skeletons for skiff and skeletal buddies. I think peppermints sound best, but skiff + skeletal buddies would be powerful too; you can use the cleric to heal and the buddy for stats.

Astral pets: Next time I'll probably take the astral ring (+spell dmg), mask (+items), or maybe shield (DR, HP). I took the statuette this time, but if you have Clip Art, you may want to run halos at least early on. The Bracer reduces the amount of damage your spells do, see "Something's wrong with this Astral Bracer...". I've been running the potato companion and the shiny halo for +stats. The staves probably outclass halos when you get access to them. MP regen doesn't seem like it will be a problem. (HP regen is a problem early on though, there's no simple healing skill, but some chefstaves give HP regen or heal-on-jiggle. I doubt that makes the astral shield or shorts worthwhile though.)


Last edited by catchops on Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:08 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : NOT THE BRACER)

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Re: Avatar of Jarlsberg

Post  Zoiy on Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:31 am

Vampire fang skill works, same with mojo mask, so for SC runs, it seems that equipment skills works aswell.

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Re: Avatar of Jarlsberg

Post  Foxy Boxy on Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:41 am

Based on the last two "Skills in a Vacuum" challenge paths (AoB, Zombie) I'm guessing March's Item of the Month will be a Jarlsberg-able equipment, that will be a free pull / usable in HC.

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Re: Avatar of Jarlsberg

Post  partybasher on Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:01 am

regarding skill choice:

Someone posted this one the forum, but makes the combat skills look less important than they are.
http://i.imgur.com/3Zf9WFL.gif

It seems going deep in one or two trees is good for turn cutting, while spreading out to get more conjuring, combat/cooking and adv-related passive skills you generate more turns (you need many combat/cooking and conjuring skills to make better food.)

For low skill HC I would spread out, otherwise you'd be stuck with that nice -combat sphere and a nice companion, but very few turns.
For SC, you might be able to specialize a bit more, since you can pull spleen to compensate, and you'll pick up some of the cooking and conjuring skills along the way.

Also, the advanced conjuring skills unlock the higher level chefstaves which seem very powerful (maybe even stronger turn cutters than some of the spheres), and they only require 3/4 points in a tree. (while also helping with turn gen), so those might be good goals for low skill. (esp. cream, cheese and meat staffs, those would turn-cut like mad, I think)
I did hear that the cream staff (suspected to be a sniff/copy mechanic) isn't working right yet, but nothing conclusive yet.

edit: also, Vole seems to be a non-intuitive yet decent sign for ease of play (initiative and max MP) since jarls is a bit of a glass cannon.

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Re: Avatar of Jarlsberg

Post  catchops on Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:55 pm

Zeller has posted some paths to good food / booze here:

Sublime stew / vodka dog path: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/showpost.php?p=4390750&postcount=360
Nachos / Nachojito path: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/showpost.php?p=4390808&postcount=376

edit: Dammit! Why are some of the complex foods lame? I chose dough as my last skill, excited to make an egg salad sandwich, only to find out it's only decent. whoop de doo!

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Re: Avatar of Jarlsberg

Post  ironhorn on Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:28 am

Will probably try this path next (after I gather enough funds for my vip key)

Normally I do hardcore runs, but for this I'm not too sure. Hardcore gets 2 skill points, but softcore gets pull for +adv and all the needed stuff to speed it up a bit.

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Re: Avatar of Jarlsberg

Post  partybasher on Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:35 am

I'd start with SC for the first couple of runs.
That's what I did with boris (but not being able to pull food/booze might make the diffrence between HC/SC not as pronounced as it was with boris)

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Re: Avatar of Jarlsberg

Post  catchops on Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:10 pm

I'd guess two chained softcore runs will probably still be the faster way to get skill points. HC will have to forgo turn-cutting skills for turngen skills the first few runs. SC will be able to pull things to help cut quest turns, and things like spleen, milk of magnesium, munchies pills, salad forks to help turngen. I think quests may take so long in HC that, as in early Boris, you won't need much if any powerleveling or +experience stuff.

I made a little spreadsheet and a script today that show what food/booze I can conjure for a given combination of skills. There are a couple of early combos that look decent: you can get sublime stew + nachojito at 9 points, or perfect chef salad + nachojito or vodka dog at 10pts. Either way you should almost certainly detour for Most Important Meal ASAP.

Tentative program for a first run (not tested, but I'm pretty sure it's better than Zeller's):
caveat: This sort of assumes you can get to level 5 without drinking on day 1 and to level 8 without eating on day 2; I don't know if either of those is reasonable. I think using Most Important Meal with your biggest food is the priority either way, as the adv/stat bonuses are huge.

  • Level 1: Get Boil, Most Important Meal, and Veggies. Eat 4-fullness soup. Later you can fill up with two 3-fullness salad.
    (MIM with soup is worth ~12 adv and lots of stats.)
  • Level 2: Get Chop. You can now make those salads
  • Level 3: Get Fruit. You can now make rum, but don't drink it unless you must, we should be able to get further.
  • Level 4+5: Get Cheese and Bake (in any order) You can now make three 3-fullness Nachojitos (Rum + melted cheese).
    You can nightcap with lager if you don't get any further than this.
  • Level 6-8: Get Potatoes, Meat, and Grill for Sublime Stew (6 fullness). You'll only be able to eat 1 stew; eat it first, then fill up with soup or something. After you get Liver of steel, I think you'd drink 3 Nachojito, 1 vodka or Sauerlager, 1 mediocre lager, and nightcap with either vodka or sauerlager. (Never Late for Dinner is a tempting detour here, but get stew first unless you've already eaten, rollover is approaching, and you're sure you can hit level 9 and get stew tomorrow. Sublime stew is worth ~21 adv more than the base foods with MIM, ~15 adv more than base foods even without MIM!)


The order depends a bit on how far you can get day 1 and how far before you eat/drink. If you can get to 7 points without eating (level 5 for a first run), you should go for MIM+stew and drink fillers if necessary.

An alternate path gets you perfect chef salad @ level 9, but I think it's about 3 adv/day worse on average:

  • Level 6-9: Get Potatoes, Meat, Eggs, and Freeze (Potatoes first because they make extra booze)
    Eat 1 chef salad with MIM and fill up with another chef salad. Drink as above.


From here you can start to take detours; all these are 1 skill away:

  • eggman (+50% items, salad path only),
  • food coma (10 free rests/MP recharges), hippotatomous (+3 stats/adv), never late (+10 adv/day and initiative),
  • nightcap (+5 liver, salad path only, worth at least 4 adv/day, probably more if you can make enough decent booze)
  • gristlesphere (+20 ML buff, stew path only),
  • best served cold (+spell dmg, either path)


Lunch like a King is 2 skills away and lets you eat 2 stews, which I think is worth at least 18 adv/day, but I haven't double-checked that you have enough ingredients for that much food+booze. I wouldn't aim for both Lunch and Nightcap until you can get Early Riser.

Or you could stay on a longterm turngen path, aiming to get EPIC food at level 12, worth ~12 more adv per day:

  • Ultimate Breakfast Sandwich: Get Eggs (stew path), Dough, Fry, and Slice.
  • Loaded Baked Potato (salad path only): Get Dough, Fry, and Cream.
    (Dough also lets you make Vodka Dogs, so more of your liver can be good booze.)


The problem with Zeller's programs is his food and booze both require the same resources. If you can detour to get Early Riser they start to become more viable.

Edit: Some of the staffs are so powerful they're worth considering in skill order. The above path gets you the Meat staff around Lv 7 (massive +items), which you'll probably want for the F'c'le and Filthworms and many low-drop-rate items in between. You also get the Cheese (banish) staff around Lv. 4, but you'll have to forgo a good drink at some point to make it. It doesn't get you Creamfaction or Bread (healing), so healing will remain tough.


Last edited by catchops on Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:39 am; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : reality check. dammit this is hard when you don't know how far you'll get!)

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Re: Avatar of Jarlsberg

Post  ironhorn on Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:23 am

couldn't wait; bought a vip key and jumped the gap

hardcore avatar of jarlsberg, but am regretting it already. Second day and stuck on level 5 (can't seem to level up enough and lousy turngen). Though i'm sticking to it and I'll try to finish this run in hardcore. Next one's going to be softcore though Smile
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AoJ Learning

Post  Chalion on Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:43 pm

The most Important Meal has been a huge boost for me.
Box of Hammers from Tome of Clip Art replaced Ur Donut for a 0 Turn level 2 for me.
I went for Sublime Stew first, which was /very/ helpful, and I managed to get it & The Most Important meal
It seems to have left me a bit out of position for anything else however. All the other good food/booze seems 5+ skills away.


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Re: Avatar of Jarlsberg

Post  partybasher on Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:52 pm

About the box of hammers-
I recommend going 3Xgroose grease on day 1 instead, possibly pulling a mojo filter and doing a fourth one.
You were going to pull spleen anyway, so may as well save a tome cast. (not that they're THAT useful on Jarls, but what the hell)

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Re: Avatar of Jarlsberg

Post  catchops on Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:10 pm

So we now know the astral bracer is not a good idea after all because of the unique mechanics of Jarslberg's spells. This may apply to other -MP cost items available in softcore too.
"Something's wrong with this Astral Bracer..."

re: hammers -- maybe Chalion's in HC? I agree there must be better pulls for SC, but we HC folks have to do something with our tome summons, and I find myself with no clue what half the time. Sugar chapeaus have been a thing, and unbearable light when I remember to use it. I wouldn't know what to do with a rad lib if it bit me.

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Re: Avatar of Jarlsberg

Post  partybasher on Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:11 am

I checked to see if he's in HC before, which is a indeed a totally different story.
I don't have Rad libs, but the toothpicks for worms/nuns (if you do them) and other places where you need +item? and the +3 stats buff can be nice on turn zero. Box of hammers/time halo/light is probably better though if you have clip art. I didn't bother with sugars at all, but used some stickers for nuns since I got lucky with them.

About the unbearable light- (almost) whenever you need an outfit, you can use a YR. That's how I remember to use mine ("ok, now pull the X outfit, wait, no, YR it!") well, atleast that's how I'm TRYING to remember to use mine.

Also- 3 banked skills REALLY start to make a difference. I ate a turn zero MIM-stew (50 adv!), and still managed to get sphere-of-incredible-quest-finishing in time for the crypt (I held off friars for later). Next goal- cheese staff of amazing-over-poweredness. (level 9, PLUS nachojito) then either eggman or stomach but at this point it really that much, because I have good turngen, and great turn cutting skills. Makes me wonder if max skills will make this even easier than max-boris.

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Re: Avatar of Jarlsberg

Post  MonkeyThief on Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:03 pm

Not sure if anyone has the ability, but anyone that can summon Hilarious Gifts can make some SCJ player's lives easier. Due to the +MP on it, the Amulet of Yendor may be a viable pull for MP conservation (lets you cast Boil for more damage, so you don't need to go to Grill for the one-hit).

So if anyone can summon them, stocking the Clan Stash would be nice!

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Re: Avatar of Jarlsberg

Post  Foxy Boxy on Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:40 am

MonkeyThief wrote:Not sure if anyone has the ability, but anyone that can summon Hilarious Gifts can make some SCJ player's lives easier. Due to the +MP on it, the Amulet of Yendor may be a viable pull for MP conservation (lets you cast Boil for more damage, so you don't need to go to Grill for the one-hit).

So if anyone can summon them, stocking the Clan Stash would be nice!

I checked my old (dead) clan and found three more Yendors there, which I've placed into our stash. I don't know what the karma cost is on the Yendors but if someone can't seem to pull it out of the stash and needs / wants it, kmail me and I can handle it for you. Otherwise, help yourselves.

First come, first served!

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Re: Avatar of Jarlsberg

Post  Chalion on Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:31 am

I'm not in HC, but my Multi was, which is where I figured out the Box of Hammers. Also the Box doesn't cost Spleen and while its not Bright Water, or the +30 moxie potion for the early game, it did give me a quick boost to level 2.

In HC I did, Time Halo, Light, Box of Hammers Day 1
Day 2 was Unbearable Light, +item halo, Crystal Skull

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Re: Avatar of Jarlsberg

Post  paunce on Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:50 pm

Black body spray is pretty nice in HC, too, once you hit max damage with the 5MP spells.

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Re: Avatar of Jarlsberg

Post  Foxy Boxy on Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:34 pm

Chalion graciously donated 32 more Yendors for the stash so there's really no excuse -not- to take one if you're in SC Jarlsberg.

Thanks, Chalion!

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Re: Avatar of Jarlsberg

Post  catchops on Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:29 pm

This run (5th HC run, +8 starting skill points) I got creampuff at level 6 and chocolate sphere at level 7, and I highly recommend them. I started with stew and Most Important, then got Nachojitos and Never Late, then ran up the dessert tree to Chocosphere.

I'm using the harem outfit (gotten from unbearable light) to get into guano junction and kill the knob king because my muscle is way too low for the Elite outfit until later. Maybe it would be better to wait until later for the Knob and the bats, but it feels pretty good. I have the Pan, so I have enough spell damage and MP regen that I can blow everything away especially with Grill if I need to. Turn 0 food (maybe + a few adv?) gets me to level 4, rats and the start of the manor quest get me to 5 pretty quickly. After the Knob I continue the manor quest until I've got the song on, which is midway through 6.

Initiative and HP are critical. I'm using the +50 HP hatter buff a lot, the 50 init pool buff, and even stuff like haggis socks for more initiative so I can kill things before they kill me. If I were smarter I'd have made skeleton skis day 1 or 2 instead of skeleton buddies.

At the end of D2 I have liver and fledges, am starting to learn how to snowboard and closing in on level 9. Which doesn't feel that far along for HC D2, but everything has felt like it went really quickly. (And I didn't really play D1, just ascended right before rollover and ate and drank as fast as I could.)

Folks, if in doubt, get a VIP lounge key next time you're Mr. Item shopping. It does so many useful things. (I'm also using the Pan, the dungeon magazine, and clip art, but the VIP lounge key is critical.)

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Re: Avatar of Jarlsberg

Post  catchops on Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:24 pm

Note: Don't feel all smug about being able to eat two turn-zero Omega Sundaes and then try to get summon Cream Puff at level 5. You will kick yourself because you will have no cream to puff. Go for Ultimate Breakfast Sammies instead, or have both Early Riser and a Jarlsberg Pan before summoning anything.

Edit: Also, don't neglect to get Grill without thinking about how you'll survive the Bedroom. I do have Blend, so I'll probably be fine, but I miss my OHK skill.

This is for my 6th run, starting with +10 skill points. I think I really felt like I knew what I was doing at this point in Boris.

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